Metropolitan Onuphrius on the war in Donbass
Video has English subtitles that can be turned on in the settings of the player YouTube.
–Your Eminence Onuphrius, at present the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been suffering an unprecedented pressure. Unlike others, you are not in favor of anti-terrorist operation in the east of Ukraine. This is one of the reasons why our mass media keep throwing mud at you and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. By doing so they’re apparently trying to drive a wedge between the UOC and the Ukrainian society. Opponents take advantage of this situation: under plausible slogans telling about love for the country they undertake en masse illegal seizures of churches in some regions, moreover, there can be heard appeals from the Parliament’s tribune to pass Kiev Pechersk Lavra as well as Pochaev Lavra under jurisdiction of different churcheswhich are purportedly “more patriotic”. Nevertheless, you take a tough stance regarding the military conflict in Donbass. Can you explain why? Why don’t you meet our state authorities half-way given such a complicated situation for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church?
–In order to answer this question we need to make a retrospective journey into history. When the Savior, the Son of God came to our land and took on being man, the Jewish people expected Him to be that personality, that hero who would build or restore the Israeli Kingdom. But this didn’t happen. And when Jesus Christ was asked about it He replied that the Kingdom He preached is outworldly. The Savior worked a lot of miracles. When He raised righteous Lazarus from the dead lots of people accepted Him as their Savior. Then the Sanhedrim – high priests and Pharisees – decided if the people went on like that and received Christ, then the Romans would come and conquer their nation all together. So they believed that miracles performed by Jesus Christ – weren’t patriotic deeds. When the Savior was brought before the court He was charged with being against Caesar, i.e. the Roman Emperor. To sum it up, one can say the following: our Savior, God was accused of being unpatriotic, rejecting a dominating political ideology of that time. Still, who can say it is true? He was just “tagged” so. The Lord said: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. We are the Church established by Jesus Christ. A Canonic Church is a church based on what was given by Christ and His disciples. As long as our Orthodox Church has existed it has always been blamed for being unpatriotic, though, the truth is I don’t see and have never seen more patriotically minded Church.
– Excuse me, how is this patriotism expressed?
– Patriotism means if I am a patriot, I want well-being for my land and my nation. How can I get welfare? Who bestows this welfare? This is God! It is God who bestows His blessing, not we! This is the way for each of us: if you serve God faithfully, fulfill God’s laws, statutes, rules, you’re the best patriot ever because thanks to your godly life and awareness of your sins the Lord sends his blessing for our land, our people. Unless I do it, I live contrary to the Laws of God and no matter how hard I might thump my chest saying I’m a great patriot – I do harm to myself, my people, my land. Why? Because a sinful tabernacle cannot accept God’s grace. Thus, our Church has always been patriotic but we manifest it with calling people to live with God, to find peace in God. In this we find our rejoice, by this we seek God’s grace for our land and our nation.
If I specifically refer to the war in eastern Ukraine now, I’d like to point to the essence of this war – civil war. I don’t just want to repeat somebody else’s words, because I know that personally from bishops who serve there, from my acquaintances. For instance, father's been doing his military service in the National Guard while his son is in the militia army. In one and the same family one brother fights on one side, the other – on the different side. A lot of people who live in Kiev but were born in Donetsk say they are on this side while their friends appeared on the other side. Surely, when it comes to a military conflict it becomes a gold mine for looters, murderers and different types of criminals. It was the case in our country during the civil war after the revolution in 1917, now that a fratricidal war is being waged in Ukraine, it’s accompanied again with barbarity and violence. However, this situation is not created by those who fight but who brought about this war. This war is fratricidal. Therefore the Church like it was after the revolution of 1917 calls for reconciliation and forgiveness so that we could preserve integrity of our state, enable our people to develop, improve their welfare. All this is impossible to have with waging war and shedding blood, that’s why the Church calls people to find strength to forgive and stop killing one another. This is not our present position: our Church has followed this way since 1917, it used to be so in earlier times when similar wars were triggered off, when our princes (edit. during the Kievan Rus times and the rule of Prince Vladimir, in particular) killed their brothers. At those times our Canonic Church appealed to the people to forgive each other. Like now they drove out our monks, bishops, hated us, but then they saw we were right and we got united again in peace and reconciliation. So I think our position will be heard again sooner or later.
– Do you mean to say that during the Civil War after 1917 the Orthodox Church supported neither of the sides?
– Neither. Though the then Soviet power wanted the Church to support it. Well, there were priests and bishops who agreed to that and became known as the Renovationists. They began to offer their services, to do whatever they were told to just to be close to the power and to keep their status. As a result, they were doomed; they were hated even by those whom they served for noone loves traitors. They are used but not loved. Nowadays we also have politically biased bishops and archbishops who want to drift along the current political stream. So far they are tall in the saddle, although it’s not honest, it’s wrong!
– Is this the case even in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church?
I think, it is occasionally. This is the wrong and dishonest way. One has to give an answer in the face of God. How can I console a mother whose son died in the war on the side of the Ukrainian army or on the other side – I receive lots of such weal-and-woe mothers? I can’t console them or prove something to them. I don’t have a single argument to console her. To tell her that her son died because he’d been fighting for the integrity of Ukraine?! I can’t do it because she doesn’t need anything, just her son. We live among ordinary people…
I have respect and love for the state power. Power comes from God. But God empowers people so that they fulfill the will of God, establish and create peace, not war. Although I love and respect our authorities, I request them to do as much as possible to put a stop to this war. I never make compromises or concessions if it violates God’s Laws; otherwise I’m ready to make concessions. However, when it comes to canonical regulations and statutes of the Church which have served as guidelines on our land for over one thousand years and on a history scale – for more than two thousand years – the Church has always been loyal and consistent in terms of observance of the Law because it cannot act differently. If I agree to challenge the Church, I will no longer be a part of the Church. The Church won’t suffer but I’ll definitely suffer from it. I want to be inside my Church, not outside.
–There is another question to be asked. I’m sure, a lot of people, including me, are concerned about the following: why does God let the war happen? According to the Holy Scripture – I might not quote it precisely – everything depends on God’s will and the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Consequently, God looks upon a person, all that happens on the earth from heaven and watches the shell hit the residential building and tear the child to pieces… It’s hard for me to accept and understand it.
– TheHolyScripturesays, “but the very hairs of your head are all numbered”. However, itconcernsthosewholiveoutthewillof God. Those who pursue their own will destroy their hair themselves. I’ll approach it in different words. A sin tends to spread onto the generation of a person who commits an offence against religious and moral law. Beneficence also tends to spread onto the generation of a person who makes good deeds. According to the Holy Scripture a person of good works is blessed by the Lord up to the thousandth generation. If a person does evil things, its implications affect the third, the fourth generation. For instance, if I make a sin, I inflict misery on my child, my grandchild, and possibly my great grandchild. The war is human fault, not God’s fault. Humans are endowed from God with free will. A human chooses to fight or not to fight based on the Testament. Why do innocent children die? Because of unreasoned war, too. God is not at fault if the shell hits a child, those who are at war bear responsibility for that. God doesn’t want children or anybody else to die. This is the consequence of wrongdoings.
–Nonetheless, the Lord is able to stop it.
–He can stop it but in this case He will abandon freedom of human will, i.e. a person will turn into an animal because freedom of will is a reflection of God inherent in humans. What does it mean to have this God’s image? It means to be able to experience and enjoy happiness, amenities, peace, rejoice etc. Without God presence in a human soul all this is impossible to have. Without God a person will look like an animal when all needs are confined to food-sleep, food-sleep, food-sleep-death-end of life. God’s image makes it possible for a person to enjoy life on this earth and continue to enjoy it in Eternity. Therefore God doesn’t deprive humans of this property. Just fancy if God said to a human, “if you want to wage war, I’ll take your freedom away from you; if you don’t want it – I’ll leave freedom with you”. Is it fair? A person with deprived will might tell God at the Last Judgement – well, my Lord, I could have not gone to war and not killed anybody, but I didn’t have any choice: you didn’t give me any. God expects people to reflect His image in their acts of kindness and love by their free will. If people start to suffer, it is caused by their wrongdoings; a civil war is just one of the evil choice preferences.
–Perhaps, people who are forced to live in the immediate battle area are in a wretched plight at the moment. What can you wish them, what message can you send them?
–I’d like to tell them they aren’t the biggest trespassers as somebody believes them to be just because they are suffering this war. I mean average citizens who have nothing to do with the war: civilians rather than war-mongers. They aren’t those bitter wrong-doers who have incurred ill luck. God shows us if we go on doing bad this scenario might also await us. The Sword of the Spirit will split you, as the Bible goes. There is good history-long evidence with Israeli people: when they were with God – they were rewarded with well-being, fertile land, happy families – everything. Once they abandoned God – they suffered hunger, famine, war, massacre. When they repented their errors, they began to live a happy life again. All history of the mankind is patterned like that. What we are facing in Ukraine is how a worldwide history makes a comeback. Unless we are loyal to God, we have worries and should blame ourselves. If we repent our errors and turn to God – God will turn to us and stop everything bad, and we’ll be blessed with nice and peaceful life again. I wish people from the East to have blessing from God, to be courageous and faithful. God won’t abandon them as long as they don’t abandon Him. With God’s help they will endure everything.
–Thank you, Your Eminence!
–May God save you!
